whats going on with the left hand when the right is doing the swing ride in traditional jazz playing. is it hitting just as you would when doing a funk beat with ghost notes or is there more to it!? Does it have anything to do with rudiments?
I'd say there's definetly a lot more to it. Get some jazz recordings and listen to what each drummer does. There's also quite a few books that help with comping like "The Art of Bop Drumming," and "Beyond Bop Drumming," by John Riley and the new essential seriers books by Peter Erskine.
the left hand is pretty much random accents/ ghosts mostly, depending on what you are playing.
there is no true answer to this question! sorry!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">.....oh dear! The left hand, together with the right foot 'comps' or 'accompanies' the soloist. One MUST remember that the main voice in jazz is the ride cymbal and is responsible for ensuring a strong quarter note pulse. This will give the music a feeling of forward motion and groove. Forget what your left hand is doing for the moment and concentrate on your ride cymbal, how it sounds, where you place the skip note and if it is driving and swinging at all tempos.the left hand is pretty much random accents/ ghosts mostly, depending on what you are playing.
there is no true answer to this question! sorry!
Once you are satisfied that your ride cymbal on it's own is swinging, only then should you explore comping with your left hand. For starters you can try off beat jazz quavers as this will give you a good 'shuffle' feel then one can progress from there. Without writing a whole theseis about different ways to comp, I would suggest that you LISTEN to as much jazz from as many different periods in history as possible. Someone like Max Roach will comp very differently to Tain or Jack or Elvin.
Get 2 books both by John Riley called 'Bebop Drumming' and 'Beyond Bebop drumming'. This will give you the whole evolution of comping, how to do it, why you are doing it and when best to do it!
Up until Mel Lewis, Elvin and Jack, the drummer played his ride cymbal, 'feathered' the BD on all for beats, with the Hi Hat on 2&4. Drummers then began to break up the time and gave more responsibility to the other limbs. These books with answer all your questions. Do you want a heavy triplet feel like Elvin? Do you want to sound like Philly Jo or Max? Jack? Tain? etc etc....
LET YOURS EARS DICTATE WHAT YOU SHOULD PLAY and not just because you have transcribed or got down a Jack D figure! Remember that THE RIDE cymbal is the most important voice you have and no amount of comping should detract from a good strong, swing feel that will make your fellow musicians feel comfortable and enjoy playing with you.
Have fun!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]eek.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img]Originally posted by CLWarunki:
the left hand is pretty much random accents/ ghosts mostly, depending on what you are playing.
there is no true answer to this question! sorry!
What I meant by my statement is simply that it's Jazz, there are no rules!
"What is the left hand *supposed* to do?"
It's like asking what the black keys on the piano are supposed to do.
Dazzler seems to have explained it well though, conceptually. Though, don't you mean the ride carries a strong 8th note feel rather than quarter? Ahhh, nevermind, I see what you are saying. I'm just a jazz cat wannabe anyways! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2004 06:25 AM: Message edited by: CLWarunki ]</font>
No need to expound further, as Dazz did a fine job explaining it in so many words. I'm sure there are other guys in here who are accomplished "jazzers" who might have a little something to add, altho Dazz pretty well covered it. [img]cool.gif[/img]
[Only maybe Ersk, Holmes, & Hipskind could add to it...Atkinson, Weinberg, & Husband might have an enlightening take on it too, as they've been sighted a time or two around 'nese parts...like Bigfoot or Nessie.. [img]wink.gif[/img] ...hey, it's better than nothin'!]
And yes, it's very important to inundate & immerse yourself into it by MUCH listening [AWA trying to "sort it out" & play it], as my cohort Blake said. ;c)
There are SO many greats you can listen to; aside from the ones mentioned earlier [like Elvin, Deej, Ersk, & Jeff "Tain" Watts], I would also listen to Art Blakey, Philly Jo Jones, Roy Haynes, Steve Smith [w Vital Information; or Jeff Berlin's Players Vox Humana-Champion], Jeff Hamilton [also w the LA4], Bill Stewart, Joey Barron, Danny Gottlieb [Pat Metheny], Al Foster [Miles Davis], Will Kennedy [Yellowjackets], & Gadd [Chick Corea's "Mad Hatter"], & of course for big band, guys like Buddy Rich & Sonny Payne, etc.
Another book[s] i would add to those fine RILEY & ERSK ones would be the Jim CHAPIN "Advaned Techniques for the Modern Drummer [Coordinated Independence As Applied to Jazz & Bebop]" volumes...they are relatively inexpemnsive & well-worth the $ for the wealth of info that they supply for getting deeper into jazz/bop.
"...is it hitting just as you would when doing a funk beat with ghost notes or is there more to it!? Does it have anything to do with rudiments?"...
The LH [sn/hat/toms] thing is often called "incidental," & yes, it is partly what you said, but it is also much more than this. Rudiments & independence building exercises [such as in the mentioned books] def helps build your vocab, but these are not ends in & of themselves...
* ...the LH can "comp" both linearly [alternating stickg] & also simultaneously [stickings at the same time], & both together, accenting the forward motion of the swing, & complimenting what's going on around musically [the other players]...it can also set up figures for the other instruments, AWA mimicing [sparingly selective!] & contrasting [contrapuntally] to another's figure, like 'call & response'...& it can create its own little rhythmic figures & "mini-explosions" within the basic pulse of the groove [usually trying not to step on another soloist's figures!].
* - & while jazz/bop/swing CAN indeed have a propelling 8th note pulse within a swing tune, Dazz is correct in that it's really a strong underlining 1/4 pulse, w the main driving feel being on the "&'s" of this generally...but those LH accents can dance around in many places of the beat/measure...
...guys like Weckl & Vinnie kill with their LH comping, it is pretty advanced, but listen to them as well, &...
...read Dazz's posts again...acquire the music...& get those books [they talk about this AWA the 'exercises'...] [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 30, 2004 12:55 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Read Dazzler's post over and over.
Get some Art Blakey records and Jimmy Cobb with Miles Davis ("live at the BlackHawk" in particular- both nights) That will be a great start.. Later, move on to Tony Williams and Elvin. Listen, listen, listen, listen...
Happy drumming [img]smile.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I don't!! The reason that jazz is jazz (*striaght ahead 4/4 swing) is because of the forward motion. Like a conveyer belt, It's constant.Though, don't you mean the ride carries a strong 8th note feel rather than quarter?
You can liken the feel of pop/rock, with it's backbeat on 2&4 to a vertical line pointing downwards, with a definite 'hit' on the 2&4. The feeling of jazz would be a horizontal line from left to right, ever moving as it is constant and relentless. The bass walks on all 4 beats of the bar and the ride cymbal is constantly swinging. Even without the skip notes, one can generate a heavy swing just by playing crotchets. It is VITAL that this is is understood BEFORE one gets involved in comping figures.
Any comping figures that you do play should compliment and aid a strong feeling of forward motion and swing. Putting a backbeat on beat 3 for example will kill that and spoil the swing feel.
Being able to generate a good ride cymbal feel is everything, comping should only be used when appropriate. If it doesn't seem or feel right to play figures with your left hand, then don't! Your ears will tell you what to play!!
[img]wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/music.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ July 28, 2004 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2004 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>
fanx Fuse. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
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